tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post314059826611405936..comments2024-03-08T17:55:48.308-05:00Comments on Sweet Freedom: FFB: NEGLECTED VISIONS edited by Barry N. Malzberg, Martin Harry Greenberg and Joseph D. Olander (Doubleday 1979)Todd Masonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-31445670207550498072019-11-09T13:57:32.503-05:002019-11-09T13:57:32.503-05:00Thanks for the update, Jim. Sadly, I fear that wil...Thanks for the update, Jim. Sadly, I fear that will include a lot of public library discards.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-68279326577801810232019-11-08T11:09:31.771-05:002019-11-08T11:09:31.771-05:00I snagged a copy on ABEbooks. There's plenty m...I snagged a copy on ABEbooks. There's plenty more there.Jim Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09953679196185650753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-75066554023374362562011-11-16T01:28:31.480-05:002011-11-16T01:28:31.480-05:00Now there's a fine lesson in sf! My only contr...Now there's a fine lesson in sf! My only contribution has been to soak it all in. Thank you all... Meanwhile, I'm going to see if I can trace some of the fantasy and sf magazines you and the others mentioned, Todd.Prashant C. Trikannadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079354501998741758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-46821243309592716282011-11-14T20:14:03.367-05:002011-11-14T20:14:03.367-05:00Then again, it might've been Cameron's.Then again, it might've been Cameron's.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-30614154773263166462011-11-14T20:02:33.425-05:002011-11-14T20:02:33.425-05:00And it kills me that I have never been able to rem...And it kills me that I have never been able to remember the secondhand store there in Portland, perhaps still there and perhaps not (and perhaps still so inexpensive and perhaps not), that had stacks and stacks of digests for $3 each for the 1960s issues, $4 each for the 1950s, $5 each for the 1940s...as my ex and I walked back to the bus station back to Seattle, where she lived at the time, we walked by the Scientology center and I joked about reselling my $5 copies of UNKNOWN, in fine shape in collectors' terms, for ridiculous markup because they had Hubbard stories within. (This would be about the height of Scientologists and those who wanted to mulct them driving the price of anything with a Hubbard story in it through the roof on eBay.) Probably not Cameron's nor Longfellow's and almost certainly not Powell's but damned if I can remember its name. They did have a room of magazines, though. That's where I got my MAGAZINE OF HORRORs, STARTLING MYSTERY STORIES, and a few of my SAINT MYSTERY MAGAZINEs...Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-67644595676394120392011-11-14T19:49:45.975-05:002011-11-14T19:49:45.975-05:00Richard, I would recommend that you mention on you...Richard, I would recommend that you mention on your website that you are looking for a complete or extensive run of Astounding in the digest years for a reasonable price. You might get a bite.<br /><br />Another method that you can keep checking on would be ebay and abebooks.com. I had success with both of these when I decided to pick up the last 30 years of Astounding, Asimov SF, and F&SF. Around 1980 I stopped buying issues and then 30 years later decided to track down the issues. You will get hits for some of the complete years if you type into ABE, "Astounding 1952" etc.<br /><br />Also on ebay, type in "Astounding Science Fiction" and then sort by highest price. Right now there is a seller with around 80 issues in the fifties for $169 which is $2 each.<br /><br />I know you haven't been attending the pulp conventions but Windy City and Pulpfest always have stacks of digests. If there is a local SF convention near where you live, then you might get some leads. <br /><br />Just keep checking Abecook.com and ebay every week and I bet you eventually will find a long run.Walker Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16089880902426182100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-60539095144240801872011-11-14T14:12:23.617-05:002011-11-14T14:12:23.617-05:00Very interesting. Walker, Todd, et al, I wonder if...Very interesting. Walker, Todd, et al, I wonder if there might be a suggested starting place to find those back issues of Astounding? I have in the past looked for them, and found separate issues (on eBay, for instance) for $10 per, but picking up say all of the Forties, Fifties and Sixties would cost a lot that way! Few used magazine dealers who I've found via internet search seem to have more than a handful of these issues, either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-7992355922483878042011-11-13T15:22:58.409-05:002011-11-13T15:22:58.409-05:00Thanks, Qi! (She refers to my two vignettes a week...Thanks, Qi! (She refers to my two vignettes a week or three back.)Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-68963209119316480882011-11-13T15:00:21.156-05:002011-11-13T15:00:21.156-05:00Very well thought out post. I was wondering if yo...Very well thought out post. I was wondering if you will be considering writing a collection of ghost stories a la Edith Wharton. I found the one story very Whartonesque in terms of atmosphere--there is the ambiguity left unanswered and being subtly creepy and unsettling that mark a lot of her ghost stories. The ambiguity is what is freakish. It was impressive how descriptive your story is, it was like watching a movie. I'll have to read your more recent shorter story.Alice Changhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10012542046880714130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-71408564459703528142011-11-12T21:20:50.467-05:002011-11-12T21:20:50.467-05:00Argh. My first long response eaten by bad interfac...Argh. My first long response eaten by bad interfacing.<br /><br />WALKER: Yes, the Baird years of WEIRD TALES are pretty disposable. Though I'm the kind of contrarian who, while finding Farnsworth Wright's time at the magazine much better, thinks that Dorothy McIlwraith's run as editor was better yet; the mature Robert Bloch, Fritz Leiber, Theodore Sturgeon, Ray Bradbury, Margaret St. Clair, Manly Wade Wellman or Lovecraft, Seabury Quinn and C. M. Eddy (apparently not all his were ghosted by Lovecraft)...meanwhile Wright liked to bounce some of his best folks' best work. (It's also somewhat odd to think that George Scithers and Darrell Schweitzer edited the magazine longer than either Wright or McIlwraith, if for far fewer issues.)<br /><br />The (very) small consolation for the completist collector of the shortlived good magazine is the ability to gather a complete run rather quickly...unless, as with WORLDS BEYOND, one or more issues were ashcanned.<br /><br />STEVE: Thanks! And your longer comments are as welcome as your shorter ones, certainly. <br /><br />While I like some of Garrett's lighthearted stories (and "The Foreign-Hand Tie" is the kind of punning title that stays with one), I was particularly impressed by how every staple and tack were placed just so in this early story by the famously uncontrolled Garrett (for me, though, even a minor Robert Bloch or Avram Davidson story is more fun than many writers' best work, so I can sympathize).<br /><br />Judith Merril was a busy woman in many spheres. Kelly Freas's illos for "Malice" were indeed impressive.<br /><br />And while I've not yet read all the classic sf (much less the fantasy and other forms of fiction) I'd like to, I shudder at the notion of having read all of it. And if I can get a fraction of that memory you credit me with (your own memory seems much more impressive to me...I've just read these stories, save the Wallace yet, still), I'll be appreciative.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-69570333745035738542011-11-12T00:59:59.969-05:002011-11-12T00:59:59.969-05:00Damn it, Todd, once again your review is so good t...Damn it, Todd, once again your review is so good that I want to reply in more detail than anyone will want to read. Like Richard, I've never read this anthology but I do remember most of the stories. I can't recall the Neville and the Kagan but I suspect I have probably read them.<br /><br />I like a lot of Garrett, including much of the stuff he probably wrote in his sleep. Even though I know that “The Hunting Lodge" is supposed to be one of his best stories, I don't care all that much for it. I greatly prefer the "Mark Phillips" collaborations with Janifer - shear light entertainment with no pretension of being anything more. I also have a stubborn fondness for a very Campbell-oriented ESP story which I suspect is almost totally forgotten, "The Foreign Hand Tie".<br /><br />I realize that Clifton at his peak was, and perhaps still is, regarded as one of the major writers in the field at that time. If he had been alive when Judith Merril’s (auto...sort of)biography was published, he probably would have died from embarrassment from her unrestrained adoration. I find a lot of his work not all that interesting; I do think "Clerical Error" is pretty good though. <br /><br />"Lost Memory" is a terrific, scary story. I just checked Phillips' listing on the ISFDB and I can only recall three of his stories by just looking at the titles, but I think "Lost Memory" and "Dreams Are Sacred” are so good that one would think he would be better known. (And if ISFDB is right, Phillips hasn't published a science fiction story since 1958 but he is still alive.) <br /><br />Christopher Anvil usually seemed to me to be Randall Garrett on a semi-off day. I agree that "Mind Partner" is the best story of his that I can recall. <br /><br />I agree totally about "Junior" - very pleasant but not much more.<br /><br />I think "Delay in Transit" is an excellent story up to just before the ending. The basic concept is really interesting...sort of a computerized, almost-nanotechnological ESP.<br /><br />Wyman Guin - my choice for one of the two most unjustly forgotten sf short story writers of the '50's and '60's, the other being T. L. Sherred. Guin’s short story collection, <i>Living Way Out</i>, has almost all of his short fiction; I strongly recommend it. I even like his one novel, <i>The Standing Joy</i>, but it is nothing like as good as the short fiction. And yes, "Beyond Bedlam" is better than "Malice in Wonderland" but if I recall correctly the Freas illustrations for "Malice" are as good as anything he ever did, which is very good indeed.<br /><br />Todd, I realize that you've read ever word of every science fiction magazine ever published and that is remarkable in itself, but you also seem to <i>remember</i> every word. I am, as usual, very impressed.SteveHLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01745665231586422220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-64153722436592278392011-11-12T00:04:10.443-05:002011-11-12T00:04:10.443-05:00Seeing the list of SF titles that Todd posted in t...Seeing the list of SF titles that Todd posted in the above comment brings back alot of memories. I collected all these titles also and still have most, though I sold my sets of WEIRD TALES and PLANET STORIES when I retired a few years ago. I managed to replace the WT set with a nice bound set but only from 1926-1954. Except for Lovecraft, I never found much of interest in the 1923-1925 issues.<br /><br />I still remember buying the first issue of INFINITY SF off the newstand and hoping that it would have a long life full of quality SF like GALAXY, F&SF, and ASTOUNDING, but it was not to be.Walker Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16089880902426182100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-86680113538851111762011-11-11T19:40:13.096-05:002011-11-11T19:40:13.096-05:00For me, the important and frequently impressive 19...For me, the important and frequently impressive 1950s fantasy and sf magazines also include:<br /><br />BEYOND<br />WORLDS BEYOND<br />VENTURE SF<br />INFINITY SF<br />PLANET STORIES<br />FANTASTIC (during Browne's and Goldsmith's tenures)<br />AMAZING (likewise, if less so than FANTASTIC)<br />FANTASTIC ADVENTURES, at very least specific issues, such as the ones with Leiber's YOU'RE ALL ALONE, the one with Robert Bloch's THE DEAD DON'T DIE! and the one with Sturgeon's THE DREAMING JEWELS...<br />WEIRD TALES, even on its last legs<br />IF certainly had its moments<br />STARTLING STORIES <br />THRILLING WONDER STORIES<br />SCIENCE FICTION/FUTURE FICTION<br />FANTASTIC UNIVERSE<br />FAMOUS FANTASTIC MYSTERIES, even as it barely made it into the decade<br />SF ADVENTURES<br />UNIVERSE SF likewise had some very notable material...<br /><br />...and the damnedest thing is how many titles this excludes, though at least some of those are highly excludable. I've yet to read a Del Rey-edited FANTASY MAGAZINE/FICTION nor his nor Harry Harrison's sf magazine group and remain amused that Robert Silverberg has recently put together an anthology out of SUPER-SCIENCE FICTION, slotted for publication soonish from Haffner: http://www.haffnerpress.com/9781893887480.htmlTodd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-71679628774989513212011-11-11T19:05:02.941-05:002011-11-11T19:05:02.941-05:00Richard, it looks like we have similar timelines i...Richard, it looks like we have similar timelines in SF. I discovered Sf at age 13 with GALAXY in 1956. I immediately bought all the back issues and I soon discovered ASTOUNDING with Heinlein's CITIZEN OF THE GALAXY, which Todd shows in his fine article. However, I didn't stop with 1950, I obtained all the back issues back to 1930.<br /><br />Concerning the theft of your digest ASTOUNDINGS, you should be able to rebuild the set with no problem at all and have fun tracking down the issues that you need. The issues are not hard to find and still inexpensive. One of the reasons I'm a collector is the fun of the game. In the 1950's I refer to GALAXY, F&SF, and ASTOUNDING as the Big Three, in that order.Walker Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16089880902426182100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-14792588326780712002011-11-11T15:46:45.891-05:002011-11-11T15:46:45.891-05:00Or, take for example the second, SFWA-poll-driven ...Or, take for example the second, SFWA-poll-driven FANTASY HALL OF FAME book. Silverberg and whoever was helping decided to require the earliest stories for consideration be published in 1939, because, after all, that was when UNKNOWN was first published, and that of course was the beginnings of modern fantasy. I hope the utter blinkered fatuousness of that is already sinking in. UNKNOWN was a great magazine, that among other things was the child of innovations pioneered by writers for WEIRD TALES, STRANGE TALES, THE STRAND and, of course, such folk as Thorne Smith and James Branch Cabell. "But that doesn't allow us to kiss the dirt JWC tread upon!"Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-9949236749483925732011-11-11T15:20:19.007-05:002011-11-11T15:20:19.007-05:00Well, Rick, I'm not sure it's fair to say ...Well, Rick, I'm not sure it's fair to say that I have a bias against ASTOUNDING so much as a bias against the deification of Campbell, or worse and more common, the doubleness of thought that recognizes the flaws in ASTOUNDING when featuring Everett B. Cole stories and the most trivial Garrett stories, occasionally leavened by some excellent work, but demands they should be given a pass because of all the good work Campbell did, particularly in the '40s. If we (reasonably) hold AMAZING and FATE's Ray Palmer responsible for the irresponsible and dull Shaver Mystery and flying saucer material, we should definitely also hold Campbell responsible for pushing Dianetics, dowsing and the Dean Drive, and demanding his writers write stories with psionics and/or humans as superior to all other sentient creatures, Necessarily Superior. He steer the field for the better more than any other single magazine editor, but that wasn't his whole career, and the reflexive denigration of, say, STARTLING STORIES and PLANET STORIES ca. 1950 in comparison with ASTOUNDING is simply ridiculous, even given that STARTLING and PLANET have improved by either becoming a bit more like ASTOUNDING or in finding other ways to similarly become more literate. <br /><br />Sorry to read of that theft...a weird choice for a cash-in or trade...you know, getting reading copies again won't cost too terribly much for the 1950-onward issues...<br /><br />And, you know, I'm not even sure they issued an SF BOOK CLUB edition of NEGLECTED VISIONS...Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-1904476787060001742011-11-11T14:47:54.035-05:002011-11-11T14:47:54.035-05:00Apparently this was never published as a paperback...Apparently this was never published as a paperback? That's surprising.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-21225908879858751992011-11-11T14:45:19.993-05:002011-11-11T14:45:19.993-05:00Looks like a hell of an anthology, and one I don&#...Looks like a hell of an anthology, and one I don't have. I've read most of the stories, but still... Knowing you have a bias against ASTOUNDING I was surprised to see two covers, but you made up for that in your text. I know, I know, you just didn't like Campbell as an editor and think Pohl and others did a better job in that regard (and I'm not arguing with you, exactly), but it was ASTOUNDING that brought me into SF in the early 1950s at the tender age of 7 or 8, so it's still my personal favorite. I went back later and picked up all the back issues to Jan 1950 and have read every one of them - on through the ANALOG years until about 1985 - more than once, though they are, sadly, gone now, the victims of an errant teenaged thief who traded the entire set for a lid of grass. Not that they were in mint condition, but there have been many, many times I've wished I still had them, if for the interior illustrations if nothing else, though I do love a lot of the stories too and it's fun, now, to reread the book reviews by Miller.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-21192238443591241302011-11-11T10:37:15.470-05:002011-11-11T10:37:15.470-05:00Or, even, Elinor Mavor. A name I love to misspell....Or, even, Elinor Mavor. A name I love to misspell.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-62994412544899815612011-11-11T10:26:40.445-05:002011-11-11T10:26:40.445-05:00Yeah, I'd have to say that GALAXY and IF and W...Yeah, I'd have to say that GALAXY and IF and WORLDS OF TOMORROW in that period tended to get better and better, and Edward Ferman was definitely finding his feet fast in the tough job of following Avram Davidson at F&SF (Joe Ross didn't have an enviable task at FANTASTIC and AMAZING following Cele Goldsmith/Lalli's undersupported work with even less resources to draw on, though both Harry Harrison and Barry in their brief succeeding tenures managed to do a little better with the titles, and Ross did get some notable new work, such as Davidson's THE PHOENIX AND THE MIRROR. Ted White, who could handle being in that position for a decade managed to make FANTASTIC as good as anyone's magazine at the time, and AMAZING at times surprisingly good and usually readable. Eleanor Mavor had to dance as fast as she could, and then TSR came in and threw money around for a while.<br /><br />Meanwhile, Robert Lowndes at Health Knowledge/MAGAZINE OF HORROR and its stablemates and Charles Fritch at GAMMA in those years did interesting things...and would a few more issues of SHOCK really've hurt? The good one by that title, I mean....Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-84738911224576425752011-11-11T10:18:55.364-05:002011-11-11T10:18:55.364-05:00Ah, Walker, but I was too recondite, or you read m...Ah, Walker, but I was too recondite, or you read my note too quickly...the guy's looking for eclectic but primarily contemporary mimetic titles, so THE SATURDAY EVENING POST checks in, too, in its last full-strength years, and my thoughts after that ran to magazines as diverse as ESQUIRE, REDBOOK, PARTISAN REVIEW, KENYON REVIEW, and NEW WORLD WRITING (which can be dismissed by the persnickety as a periodical book, instead, much as NEW DIRECTIONS might...and if so, my suggestion might run to EVERGREEN REVIEW, certainly one of the hqs of the avant-garde and definitely still a magazine then).Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-78453903871693923842011-11-11T10:14:39.716-05:002011-11-11T10:14:39.716-05:00Well, I've enjoyed writing it more than (certa...Well, I've enjoyed writing it more than (certainly) most of them, at least (considering how much time I've devoted, that's a Good Thing). While that "inappropriate" judgement of stripping down does have story significance in "The Hunting Lodge" (and consider how another hunting lodge has become at least a minor but troublesome point in the contest between plutocrats in the GOP for the presidential nomination), at least one gay-viewers' beefcake website (where I cadged this image), they, too, where wondering what was so inappropriate and how they might get into some of that impropriety (the same artist had done at least one earlier male-nude ASTOUNDING cover). Meanwhile, I'd always thought the man in the painting was holding an actual mammalian heart of some kind, but no, as we find out in passing.Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-90285274906795205372011-11-11T10:11:56.580-05:002011-11-11T10:11:56.580-05:00I see Todd's question as a very complex one. I...I see Todd's question as a very complex one. If we consider money and circulation, then the answer has to be PLAYBOY because their circulation was way over a million in the 1960-1966 period and they paid many times what the SF digests were paying per word.<br /><br />But if we stick to most important then I would choose GALAXY during 1960-1966. Fred Pohl was excellent as editor of the magazine just as HL Gold was during the early 1950's. Pohl was responsible for providing a market in GALAXY for Robert Silverberg and others to write their very best fiction.Walker Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16089880902426182100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-91433518146517677402011-11-11T10:04:31.196-05:002011-11-11T10:04:31.196-05:00And is that tag "INAPPROPRIATE" below th...And is that tag "INAPPROPRIATE" below the naked man a further inside joke about Campbell's "wife?"<br /><br />I enjoyed this post more than any other I've read of yours. I especially liked reading the inside dope on how Doubleday treated its SF line. I always wondered why Wellman's Silver John books were released as SF.J F Norrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06473487417479127354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8525415828746712027.post-5002198913718940772011-11-11T09:27:09.553-05:002011-11-11T09:27:09.553-05:00Thanks, Walker, and we must stimulate the second-h...Thanks, Walker, and we must stimulate the second-hand economy, no? Here's a question for you and the assembled: a fellow on FictionMags has asked for a consensus as to which were the most important (I'm taking him to mean in terms of prestige as well as money and circulation) of the fiction magazines that concentrated on contemporary mimetic fiction (or, like PLAYBOY, offered it up in a mix of other sorts) from 1960-1966...what would you all nominate?Todd Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01815516018079824802noreply@blogger.com